Vertical Horizon's Echoes from the Underground featuring Neil Peart released today

Posted on Tuesday, October 8, 2013 at 8:05AM

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#46 - Posted 10/11/13 @3:29PM by MrBill

I think working with a new producer is always a good idea (or going way back to TB again). I agree with some of the comments about some songs having a cut and paste feel to them. I am thinking maybe some of this comes with the fact the a lot of the material is worked on in parts and away from each other. Might be interesting if the boys got together for a few weeks and came with stuff collectively instead of putting items together and making them fit. This may make for some new and interesting tunes. Nothing wrong with the other process as it obviously works - but the old-school method works and would likely bring in a cool change or dynamic to new material.
#45 - Posted 10/10/13 @3:38PM by nodrush [contact]

Don't get you're panties in a bunch MG, I didn't know how sensitive (with a lisp) you are. You don't need to school me on tool, I have listened to them for years, but I stand behind what I wrote, they are quite one dimensional and predictable. They aren't as daring as Rush, nor are they as creative....although they are talented musicians, dream theater fit that category for me as well. A band that is talented and daring is porcupine tree, a much more interesting listen than tool, beter drummer as well. Cool, I'd love to be Neils best friend, can't think of a Rush fan who'd say no, although you would, because you're not a fan. I'll work on tat next set list, plenty of SA and CA , just for you.
#44 - Posted 10/10/13 @11:45AM by UnstableCondition

A lot of the VH stuff I've heard before was a little too 'vanilla' for me, but I love this one. The vocal melody went places unexpected to my ears as I listened to it, so I like that.

Nicely done.

I guess the drums are okay too... :-)
#43 - Posted 10/10/13 @11:26AM by random_sample [contact]

#42- Wow. Well said. Although I'm not as familiar with Vertical Horizon's music as you seem to be, so I can't really comment much on them. I agree with your views on Rush's future , what you said about Nick R. and about understanding their ages ,with respect to touring in the future. Personally ,I don't expect a 40th anniversary tour and would rather see them be creative, write more music, record a few more albums (even though the last few didn't thrill me, I'm always excited about the prospect of new Rush music). A few of the producers you mentioned sound like interesting propositions. I don't dislike Nick R. at all, as a person, but I am hoping they go with another producer ,next time (if there's a next time).
#42 - Posted 10/10/13 @10:39AM by Sean

Neil is just being a good friend here. VH hasn't written a good song since GO. There are a few decent songs on the new record and it is a step up from the god awful Burning The Days...but they have been spending too much time with Richard Marx on tour. I'll be honest, I can't think of a piece of solo work that Neil has played on that has impressed me or excited me as much as when he is playing on a Rush record. As for the comments on Broon coming back? Absolutely. They should bring Terry back and Neil (although I know he will never do it) needs to ditch the DW's and that set up that he has had since TFE. He really has run out of ideas and places to go on that kit. I agree with drummerboy2112 that Alex used to throw the kitchen sink into everything, same with Neil, and Geddy used to pick up different basses all of the time. Now it is nothing but Fender Jazz basses for Geddy and Gibson's for Alex and the same DW kit for Neil. When was the last time Neil did an original song on his electronics? Red Tide? I think I remember reading that he did The Speed of Love on his ddrums back in 93. Never got that confirmed though.

I hope Nick isn't around next time. My vote is for Trent Reznor, Terry Brown, Hugh Padgham, Brian Eno, Mutt Lange, Steven Wilson, Jeff Lynne, or Roy Thomas Baker. Time is running short and instead of more greatest hits tours I would rather them sit down and make a bunch of records and then do 1 or 2 more tours and retire from the road. Just keep making music boys! Face it, Rush isn't going to have a bunch of gold and platinum records any longer. They average about 350,000 records per-album in the states now, another 50,000 in Canada, and another 250 to 300,000 around the world on top of that. They don't really need any more money. Another 2 tours with one of them being a farewell to touring would rake in 60 or 70 million. They could just dedicate time to something they love doing which is creating and writing. Neil gets more home time with the family and for motorcycling, Geddy gets more time for baseball, tennis, and travel. Alex get's more time for wine, producing, golf, and grandkids.

They could wind up releasing somewhere north of 6 or 7 more records and get the chance to work with producers and guest artists they never would have had time for if they insisted on touring for each record. They are 60 and 61 yrs old now. I would be completely fine with more studio records and less touring.
#41 - Posted 10/9/13 @6:19PM by MGRushFan

You're absolutely correct Random. And we know who makes up those pre-concert songlists.......Nod's best friend Neil Peart.
#40 - Posted 10/9/13 @6:05PM by random_sample [contact]

#39- forgot to mention Tool's great song, "Nocturnal Emissions". lol.
p.s: I remember seeing stuff in interviews ,where Rush praised Tool. I also remember hearing a Tool song in the pre-concert music Rush played before one of their concerts I was at. Was during the Snakes and Arrows tour ,if I remember right.
#39 - Posted 10/9/13 @5:49PM by MGRushFan


Excellent article with Lee and Lifeson talking about their influences. Nod, you should check it out because #12 is Tool. Here is the quote:

"Adam Jones is a fabulous guitarist and songwriter, and Tool are such a powerful band. You know it's Tool when you hear them, because they're intensely dynamic, yet heavy, even when they're playing is light. I listened to this album over and over; I don't do that very often.

Tool have an interesting, intelligent approach to song construction and lyrics. It's just too bad we don't hear from them more often."

Just posted this not to beat a dead horse, but Nod seems like one of the "Rush Informants" and while i'm not trying to change his mind to like Tool, he should know that his heroes "the boys" would probably be the first to put him in his place vis a vis Tool and their influence.
#38 - Posted 10/9/13 @5:35PM by MGRushFan

And lest we forget Nod, the members of Rush have all gone on record to praise Tool and said at the very least they listened to them, if not were influenced by them. There is a vid of Peart and Carey hanging out. And Danny Carey is hardly known as a speed double bass drummer. He uses the second kick as an accent most of the time, much like the object of your nocturnal emissions Peart did and occasionally still does.
#37 - Posted 10/9/13 @5:35PM by Alexfan [contact]

Whoops. Make that Blood into Wine. LOL.
#36 - Posted 10/9/13 @5:33PM by Alexfan [contact]

I enjoy Tool. They are great at creating melancholy. Mood. Darkness. Aggressiveness. Also very talented and fwiw I really enjoyed the movie about the singer's wine company - Grapes for Blood. Worth watching, and a great insight into his personality.
#35 - Posted 10/9/13 @5:19PM by MGRushFan

You're welcome Nodrush. Now go pull your head out of your ass. Your absolute ignorance actually took my breath away.
#34 - Posted 10/9/13 @4:42PM by random_sample [contact]

I've only heard about 5-10 songs from Tool, but have always liked them, from the first time I ever heard them. I really liked the stuff from A Perfect Circle, too.
#33 - Posted 10/9/13 @4:40PM by nodrush [contact]

Thanks again for that expert opinion again MG,but many of us long time fans like CA, and I think I'll puke if I hear anymore about tool, tool are alright, but so one dimentional, every song sounds the same.....can we get any more double base, they get boring very fast. Thank god Rush aren't afraid to try new stuff, otherwise they'd be just a much better version of tool, talented but boring.
#32 - Posted 10/9/13 @3:59PM by MGRushFan

hooker with a penis is an awesome song. Talk about time sig shifts! Someone mentioned that the song Freeze on VT was hard to follow or something. Compared to Tools use of time, Freeze is a walk in the park.

My best friend is Metallica and Muse's manager, and Tool used to be managed or was affiliated with Qprime (where she works). She has an awesome picture on the door of the night Justin joined the band. Just an old pic on film from someone's camera. Nothing that was ever published. They looked so young back then. It's just the 4 of them at a table holding up 4 beers in a toast. If only they knew then how legendary they were to become..........
#31 - Posted 10/9/13 @3:57PM by Alexfan [contact]

I would bring back Broon in a heartbeat. Never been the same since he left. There were some great things that happened and it was a hell of a ride, but man would I love to see that reunion happen.
#30 - Posted 10/9/13 @3:43PM by jupeguyowensound [contact]

LOL! Just threw that in there to see if you were paying attention.
Tool Undertow is one of my top 10 albums. I remember right after Aenima came out we were on a jobsite working away with that CD just cranked and the interior designer had come in(she was older and kind of prim&proper) and was hearing this for quite a while before we noticed her. The song. Hooker With A Penis. I ran over and hit pause on the boombox and said sorry and all she said was "are those guys angry or something?" After she left we laughed like hell.
#29 - Posted 10/9/13 @3:22PM by MGRushFan

" I find a bunch of the songs from S&A and CA to sound cut and pasted together."

Very apt description. Took the words out of my mouth. Their songs do seem cut and pasted. Sheeit, with protools, it's very likely they literally are.
#28 - Posted 10/9/13 @3:20PM by MGRushFan

"Rush could've brought in Jann Werner or even mgrushfan to produce the new album and many would immediatley be on board and in love with that decision."

Lol!!!!! Not very likely Jupe!
#27 - Posted 10/9/13 @1:36PM by random_sample [contact]

#21- Yup.
#22- I agree, about Terry and Peter.
#25- Yup. The way I see it ( I understand, if not everyone agrees- but this is my opinion) is that whatever producer Rush uses, they are better off using someone more a Terry Brown or a Peter Collins. I didn't necessarily realize or think this right away, with Nick R. , but after some time has passed and I "digest" their last few albums, now I realize it. Nick R. isn't objective enough. I think that's one of the things that worked, with producers like Peter Collins or Rupert Hine. They weren't necessarily "fans" of Rush (before producing them, anyway) and in the case of Collins, I know he's been quoted ,saying he wasn't even familiar with Rush (which surprised me) at all, before he first met them. Might be similar with Rupert Hine, not being very familiar, or not a "fan" before he met Rush. At the end of the day, seems to me that Nick R. is NOT a good producer for Rush. Obviously Rush can and will do whatever they want. It's their music . But I really think they needed a more objective ear, on the last 2 albums. Someone to maybe say....hey guys...that sounds too busy, or whatever. Different input....steering their songs in a more cohesive, better structured and better sounding way. They used to be able to write and record songs (like the drummer from Death Cab for Cutie talked about in Beyond the lighted stage) that were complex, had weird time signatures, etc.....yet were still catchy as hell. I don't find a lot of their newer stuff to be that way. I find a bunch of the songs from S&A and CA to sound cut and pasted together...and hard to get into. Alex left some space in the songs , in the 80's..and even in their earlier stuff, from the 70's. It's like they gotta fill every space in a song ,now, with something ...and it's usually Alex. Just my take on it.
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