RUSH IS A BAND

#1 - Posted 1/11/12 @8:46PM by Reed Lover [contact]

Could have given us a little more about the new album other than a few drum parts and a snippet of lyric...

#3 - Posted 1/11/12 @9:05PM by holeinone53575

Always enjoy Neil's writing. Good stories about Freddie Gruber.

#5 - Posted 1/11/12 @9:38PM by Duane [contact]

#4: Yep.

It will take a while, but border security will shake itself out. In the meantime, I wonder if the analogy between Homeland security and Neil's own "home"land security (sorry) has occurred to him.

The religious skepticism, I think, has always been a part of Neil's view (lyrics from Permanent Waves, for example!). The recent spate of "outspoken atheists" (who, in my particular Christian view, do have a bit of a point) has added bite and sarcasm to the dialog, and Neil has simply picked up on that.

(By the way, when watching the Lighted Stage doc, notice what book Alex is reading on the plane: God is not great by one Christopher Hitchens!).

Personally, I don't think Neil's views are different than millions of others out there, most of whom don't have a website or blog.

Neil is Neil.

#7 - Posted 1/11/12 @9:58PM by cpb [contact]

It's interesting to me that I still have ANY reaction to Neil's religious beliefs, when I know they no longer have any bearing on mine.

Like so many of us, I must admit that there were times in my youth when Neil's lyrics were a guidepost, and they pointed me to Ayn Rand and her ideology. (Of course, later, I got into John Dos Passos thanks to Neil, and that set the course in an altogether different direction!)

But I'm certainly no DISCIPLE - and as the late teens went into the twenties, I found lots of sources of inspiration in all the arts, and life itself compelled me to make up my OWN mind on politics and religion. I got to where I could respect Neil's ability to articulate his beliefs without the need to share them.

Still, the memory of how PERSONALLY I took his views gives me a feeling - sometimes positive, sometimes negative. I know it comes out of me here in the RIAB threads, especially when I read a post from someone who seems to think Neil's beliefs haven't changed since 2112. My rational side says, "Why do you care what they think?" My emotional side says, "Because I thought the same thing once...and look how DIFFERENT I am now!" My apologies when the latter allows me to be "drawn offsides" in here.

Anyway, using Neil's reflections as an excuse for my own. Posted here because I figured some of you would relate. RESPECT to all RIAB's!

#9 - Posted 1/11/12 @10:10PM by musicofthespheres [contact]

there's also probably been plenty of would-be presidential candidates who have had similar views to Neil...

Really enjoyed this update. He borrowed the title and the needlepoint story from an earlier N,W,S -- December 2006 before S&A I think.

great to hear the positive influence of Nick continues! and don't worry #1, there's all kinds of time and other avenues for more stories. remember the MD breakdown of all the S&A songs?

#11 - Posted 1/11/12 @11:18PM by palidrummer11

#6

I totally agree. Neil has a life other than just Rush, and it's always nice to get a break from updates regarding the status of the band, and a look into the thoughts of three of them. Neil's not trying to prove anything, or trying to push Atheism, Christianity, Paganism, or anything onto anybody! He's just telling his fans what's been on his mind for the last half a year, and sharing his own ideas. To be honest, the best parts were the parts that WEREN'T about Rush. Part of the reason why the Holy Trinity is my favorite band ("favorite" is a huge understatement, but I think you know what I mean), is that the three of them are just overall good people. I would much rather hear what any one of them (especially Neil) has to say and what's on their minds, because it's really about the three of them, and the music that they make is just another reflection of the people that they are.
This was an awesome article/post/entry or whatever you call it that Neil wrote! Even better, I knew exactly what he was talking about when he referred to turning right from Sunset onto the Pacific Coast Highway, because I live 5 minutes away from him! :-)

#13 - Posted 1/12/12 @12:36AM by Rushian Roulette [contact]

#12--News Flash--For example, there are a lot of "long time fans of, say, Rush Limbaugh who happen to be liberal and disagree with everything he says...let they are fans who tune in every day. Point being, one does not have to be a "fan" to suck up the product. Media is wierd that way.

#15 - Posted 1/12/12 @1:42AM by stergios2112

(Excuse my English mistakes)I admire Neil more now that I know he admired the work of Mr Christopher Hitchens. I agree completely with #14. Neil is not bashing Christians. The problem is that religious people don't like criticism in any form, pretending to be "bashed" when someone expresses disbelief. Atheism is a reaction to religious bashing to others who dont agree with them in their irrationality.

I love that Neil is addressing religion as a problem more often and I hope this continues. The criticism of religion is the most deep work of the philosophic mind. Faith (the stubbornness of believing something just because you have been BU2B) is on the other side.

#17 - Posted 1/12/12 @7:26AM by roostercypher [contact]

More importantly, the Christmas tree image at the bottom of the page has pixel dimensions of 2112 x 2816. Coincidence? I think not.

#19 - Posted 1/12/12 @8:57AM by double-agent [contact]

This was an awesome update! Glad to see he mentioned Christopher Hitchens. Whether you agree with his views or not, the man was brilliant and fearless and deserves to be remembered. And I'm glad Neil is putting himself out there like that. There is no need for him to "quietly resist." It's his blog and his thoughts and there is no need for anyone to get so defensive. If there is a god, I'm sure he doesn't need anyone taking up for him. Believe or don't believe, it's your choice. Or choose not to decide, like me. I still have made a choice.

#21 - Posted 1/12/12 @9:45AM by John E. [contact]

A day later and I regret some of my comments. For those of you who say "his blog, his right to express himself, my right to read or not", you are correct.

It's his deal. As quickly as I can change the channel when a televangelist comes on, I can choose not to read his blog.

I am a little surprised though, at all those who equate being a Neil fan with anything other than his musicianship or writing skills.

P.S. - Great post # 16 JesseZ.

#23 - Posted 1/12/12 @10:05AM by jaeger [contact]

link

#25 - Posted 1/12/12 @10:48AM by rushdaverush [contact]

I didn't read all the posts, but as soon as I read the first one I knew I'd post. He gave us a snippet for sure - not that he needed to. Here's your snippet: guess what, everybody who holds a religious belief, particuarly if you hold a Christian belief - you can get yourself ready to be smacked around again. Prepare yourself for misinformed lyrics about Christian Skygod the watchmaker who loves us all to death, and get ready for the story of a boy who gets on a Steamliner and goes on a quest only to find out that there is no God, and look how stupid all the people are around him.

I wish he would find another topic. He treats his disdain for belief in God as if it is the apex of writing. For those of you who don't care if he writes on these topics or not, well, good for you, but at least understand that for those of us who hold religious beliefs, some of those songs become a source of difficulty. We can't really sing along and feel good about, any more than you would be able to if the lyric was acknowledging the presence of God. It is just so alienating. I've been listening to this band for almost four decades, and have seen them perform many, many times. It wasn't always like this. Sure, Neil expressed his opinions, and as a fan you tuck it away and say ok, but in recent years, it has become so pointed, and directed. It is growing tiresome. I mean, you think of BU2B. For one thing, if he was truly brought up with the belief system described in that song, that's a pretty narrow and rigid view. For another, I don't imagine Olivia will be BU2B something that might be considered rigid and narrow. Look, just FIND ANOTHER TOPIC FIND ANOTHER TOPIC FIND ANOTHER TOPIC. I want to listen to Rush to be impressed, and inspired, and to think, and to enjoy. I don't want a holy war where I sit there and say "awwww, come on Neil. Don't sit there and pound me please."

#27 - Posted 1/12/12 @11:05AM by Rubinowits [contact]

#25. You nailed it.

And I don't have faith in faith nor do I know any Christian who has faith in their faith. That makes no sense. And I wasn't raised to not question my faith. The head isn't bypassed. We have faith in evidence - it's not blind faith. Look into it. Look into how Simon Greenleaf became a Christian. He was convinced because of the evidence and he the Treatise on the Law of Evidence (3 vols., 1842-1853) which remained a standard textbook in American law throughout the Nineteenth century. He didn't believe because of wishful thinking.

#29 - Posted 1/12/12 @11:37AM by cpb [contact]

Then how do you explain everyone's ability to levitate in this picture?

link

#31 - Posted 1/12/12 @11:52AM by Jimbo [contact]

So - back to RUSH! There aren't many reactions to Neil's mention of adopting a new approach to drum composition. I mean, look at that picture and just imagine yourself in Nick's place, conducting the one man orchestra of Neil Peart! It sounds like they're pasting together several takes of his drumming to create a complete composition, and, while that sounds odd to me, it's worked for Alex with his solos for many, many years. And how much do you want to bet that the "one song" he mentions, the really tricky one, is also the "epic" song. I'm excited to read of "complicated arrangements" and the fact that the little snippet of lyrics were from a "character" - a character, which pushes this more into storytelling, which is what I loved about some of their earlier, longer pieces. Overall, this was an excellent update.

#33 - Posted 1/12/12 @12:16PM by dylanbrooks [contact]

I couldn't care less what Neil believes. But the only reason for a celebrity to write about it or talk about it publicly is if they're trying to show someone else that THEY are right. No one wants to hear Tom Cruise preach about Scientology to the the public (thank goodness he doesn't). Neil talks about "Quietly resisting", but he is not quiet about it at all. I'd be JUST AS ANNOYED if he were preaching Christianity, or Islam. I want to appreciate Rush without their collective religious views being pushed on me. Or political views, for that matter.

#35 - Posted 1/12/12 @12:33PM by rushdaverush [contact]

#28 - it isn't the inability to endure criticisms that is frustrating people with religious beliefs here. It is the inaccurate generalizations of, frequency of, and growingly aggresive expressions of how foolish anybody is who holds a religious belief.

#32 - Neil would puke on his shoes if he read that. Rush's music and lyrics are inextricably connected. They just are. The fans who listen to their music, and who have for years and years and years and years are not listening to it just to hear a good beat, bob their heads up and down, and put their hands in screwball positions at concerts while they do it. You know that. Look at this blog. There are lyric references all over it. The strength and power of lyrics are, in large part, what have given so many of their songs staying power with their fans. They resonate. That's why people get upset when they feel like Neil is telling them "I'm right you're wrong and I'm going to use the bully pulpit to tell you that."

And by the way, I don't care what he writes in his blog. Have at it. But entertain and engage me with the lyrics rather than tell me that what I believe must be the juvenile reactions of one who simply has not yet realized the accuracy Neil Peart truth of the world.

Now, I know that one response to somebody like me would be for you to say "well, then skip that song" and there are definitely times I do that. Or, you might recommend that I stop listening to the band. It isn't that easy. I mean, Neil's been systematically making it easier in recent years, but it isn't that easy. Many of us grew up with this band. Their music and lyrics have had meaning and bearing on us for decades. We've felt close to them and their music, to the extent you can do so with rock stars you've never met. We were crushed when Neil lost his wife and daughter. We were elated when he married again, and thrilled when Olivia came along. So, those of us who feel like Neil is using the bully pulpit to effectively call us foolish, well, we struggle with how to react to that, when it comes from a man for whom we hold such emotional ties. We know it is art, music, opinion, and I don't think anybody has a problem with his rights to express his opinions. But we hear those songs and read those lyrics, and say "well now what? I mean I respect this band a lot,I really like the music, but I'm getting tired of Neil going after my beliefs and everybody else's album after album. Its upsetting coming from him. What do I do?" Most of us seem to just absorb it, hope he'll find another topic to ragdoll, enjoy the songs we can, and be a bit disappointed about the ones we can't.

#37 - Posted 1/12/12 @12:52PM by subdivincent [contact]

I'm surprised that a perfectionist like Neil would misplace a quote.

The passage that he attributed to Hitchens was actually written by Ayaan Hirsi-Ali, a brilliant woman who escaped an arranged marriage in Somalia and has been a brave voice against religion and dogma. It can be found in Hitchens' compilation "The Portable Athiest".

#39 - Posted 1/12/12 @1:11PM by Homey M Holmes

"Update: I couldn't be bothered to my drum parts beforehand, so I just showed up and winged it, and they're splicing my parts together. Awesome! Oh, and Christianity sucks."

#41 - Posted 1/12/12 @1:16PM by broughttoyoubytheletterj [contact]

Today I'm a Crispian, maybe tomorrow I'll be a whiney-ass christian, maybe next week I'll be a brilliant pagen...

#43 - Posted 1/12/12 @1:32PM by rocinante5m [contact]

The main reason I started listening to Rush, when I was 13, was it was different....Different music, different lyrics.....I was instantly a fan after I started to read the lyrics....Why?? because Neil had a way of writing "in-tune" with the times....He wrote about his youth, he wrote about books and philosophies, he wrote about history, current events, politics, relationships and religions.....Before I had all this access to Rush via the internet, I had to eagerly await the next Rush album to hear and read what interesting takes Neil had on the way of the world for that particular place in time.......Religion has suffocated the world, always has and always will....but over the past decade or so it probably has more than ever, because the stakes are a lot higher.....I for one am glad Neil chooses to write about it, to write about how religion has poisoned the minds of so many, how religion has taken over our political process and humanitarian duties.....Religion has caused more harm than good and has killed more than it has saved.....If you don't believe this to be true I respect that, it is your opinion, like I have mine and Neil does too.....The world is a very different place than it was 15-30 years ago and Neil wishes to write about it, deal with it.......Funny how people with "faith" have no problem with their government telling them how to live their life, who they should marry, what they should ingest in their bodies, what they should watch, what they should read or listen to.......To all the "believers", please ask your God to skip Saturday Night's game in Boston and try to feed and shelter some people, I think that would be a lot better for his image than a bunch of people Teabagging this weekend......
Thanks, I, any many others would really appreciate it.........the closest thing to a God is the woman who bore you and Neil :D

Peace in the Middle East and the Middle West.....after you're done praying pass the ammo please, gotta a few people I need to convert........

#45 - Posted 1/12/12 @1:39PM by musicofthespheres [contact]

some great posts above. I love what Neil is doing.

And if he gets a fact wrong (I'm sure he does; he considers himself an amateur naturalist, and as a trained biologist I know he gets some stuff wrong...), that's OK -- just remember that by trade he is first and foremost in the words of Geddy "a monster f----en musician".

#47 - Posted 1/12/12 @2:05PM by Homey M Holmes

#45, it's more than just getting facts wrong, it's an entire philosophical orientation. Obviously, it could be worse, but reading that blog definitely dampened my hopes for the new album. Wouldn't it be shocking if he wrote something along the lines of "The Trees"? But it ain't gonna happen.

#49 - Posted 1/12/12 @2:13PM by Jodeo [contact]

Um... Neil?
If I may quote Jesus dressing down the scholars of the bible of his day (the pharisees), "Haven't you read?"

How can such a voracious reader such as our much-admired Neil let his perspective on real Christianity be willfully fed with misinformation? I don't understand. Not that I'm asking him to convert, but just to make informed statements and observations about this spiritual reality know as Christianity.

Just to set a few things straight for all reading (and not in response to Neil)...
* Jesus never asked for or instructed an observance of his birth. "Christmas" was born out of a group of christians wanting to detract from the Winter solstice celebrations. (He did instruct his followers to observe a regular remembrance of his death by communing together and sharing a simple meal of bread and wine, based on the passover feast of the Jews).
* Jesus never asked for or instructed anyone to show NO mercy. To the contrary, he commanded and exemplified it (see Matthew 5 and 6 for starters). Anyone justifying violence in light of their "Christian faith" is at once denying faith in Christ. There is no way to escape that. The number of people killed in the name of Christianity by God's authority stands at 1, and his name was Jesus (bearing in mind God raised him and his tomb stands empty to this day).

As a life-long and devoted christian, I no more celebrate Christmas as a "christian" event than I celebrate the months of July and August as worship to Julius and Augustus, or Saturdays for the god Saturn. As a christian, I - and many other christians - celebrate Halloween, not because we're indulging in evil, but because of what it means to us: A silly opportunity to dress up in costume, replace the guts of a gourd with a candle, and ask strangers to give us candy (or in my case nowadays, pass out the candy). I don't call July "Month 8" or August "Month 9" to slither out of some marginal reference to those deified rulers. My faith is strong enough to acknowledge a national tradition like Halloween and the good within in it without indulging in the darker meanings found in some of its traditions and origins.

Christmas is a national and an international tradition, too. 99% of what happens at that time is NOT found anywhere in the bible. Aside from the birth of Jesus (which scholars accept was really in the spring or early summer) and the related events (angels announcing it to shepherds, Mary and Joseph relegated to stable, and other events of that night, plus visit by the wise men a few years later) and songs about Jesus, NONE of what we do has any faith implications. Call it a Pagan Winter Festival if you wish to, but forcing the point seems a bit arrogant, if not beneath someone of Neil's character. In my house we have a fully pagan-tradition tree with lights and ornaments, and we call it a Christmas tree because, hey, that's what everyone calls it.

Likewise, I'm not one of these morons that greets others with "heaven-o" to avoid saying "hell-o."

I share to some degree Neil's cynicism of people claiming to be Christians - even entire congregations and denominations that claim Christ - because of the inconsistency of what they do and say versus what Jesus clearly taught. Unlike Judaism and Islam and perhaps other faiths, Christianity is purely personal. Salvation is between God and the individual, not the nation or race or ancestry. (And as a human, I'm inconsistent with my faith at times, too.)

But to claim things like:

"...most fanatical "Christians" today are the most vocal against the biblical example of, say, being good Samaritans." Yeah, that's bull crap. No, it really is bull crap. An merciless assertion rooted in -- who knows what, but certainly not reality.

"...It is also arrogant to suggest that without religion we have no reason to feel 'goodwill toward men.'" Not sure who's making that suggestion. In fact, the scriptures are full of people who are "faithless" but show tremendous good will to others. If anything, many of the faithful with a genuine conviction about a life after this one (a conviction I hold), we just don't want to see that goodness left behind in a grave someday.

Neil is entitled to his views and opinions, and I'm happy he shares them here and in lyrics for thought-provoking consideration. I'm just disappointed that many of his observations on Christian faith are, well, shallow. I mean, for crying out loud, there's a collection of books that lays it all out: the New Testament.

And if Neil took time to read it for himself, I must admit, he'd be well ahead of a lot of people claiming to be Christians.
And I'd take what he had to say in reaction to it a bit more seriously.

#51 - Posted 1/12/12 @2:19PM by subdivincent [contact]

^^^^^

that's my favorite Hitchens quote!

#53 - Posted 1/12/12 @3:05PM by musicofthespheres [contact]

52 - you GOT info regarding the new album... more than we should expect, in fact, seeing as it isn't done.

#55 - Posted 1/12/12 @3:12PM by RushInHawaii [contact]

I've been a Rush fan since 1978 and will be one till 2112 and beyond. I'm also a christian. I admit that some of Neil's recent lyrics are not to my liking. I still love the guys though and can't wait for the upcoming album and tour. They're getting old and unlike some older artists I've paid money to see I believe they'll know when it's time to call it a day. Let's enjoy their last few active years.

#57 - Posted 1/12/12 @4:52PM by Jodeo [contact]

One more thing...

Regarding my post (#49) and the reference to passing out candy on Halloween, I meant to add that...

...I can't pretend a stranger is a long-a-waited fiend.

But seriously...
This is great discussion, and I love Neil's writing, including his perspectives on religion, holidays, hockey, and biking.

My complaint is NOT that he is critical of faith (shock: Jesus, St. Paul and other Christian leaders were critical of those who were NOT critical thinkers in faith and religion). My complaint is that his comments don't seem to reflect a better understanding of Christianity.

#59 - Posted 1/12/12 @5:12PM by rocinante5m [contact]

Yes, enough with the hypocrites!!! and "Christian" Politicians who preach the word and yet fight tooth and nail against helping the poor and profit on medicine......sure is a lot of hypocrisy out there.........

#61 - Posted 1/12/12 @5:42PM by John E. [contact]

@ # 43: Religion has suffocated the world, always has and always will....but over the past decade or so it probably has more than ever, because the stakes are a lot higher.....I for one am glad Neil chooses to write about it, to write about how religion has poisoned the minds of so many, how religion has taken over our political process and humanitarian duties.....Religion has caused more harm than good and has killed more than it has saved...

It's true that many wars have been fought in the name of religion but to believe that it's the reason for the wars is naive. Try replacing Greed with religion in your statement and you've got the picture.

What better way to have someone fight to the death for you than to tell them they will be rewarded in Heaven ? Religion has been manipulated and hijacked for centuries. The very foundation of Christianity and many religions for that matter is love.

Some of the ignorance blathered about by mental parrots and undeveloped minds is staggering.

#63 - Posted 1/12/12 @5:52PM by John E. [contact]

As for Caravan:

I agree with an earlier poster who's afraid it might be a representation of what to expect.

Caravan is a mess. It's not fluid and it seems forced. It's like the guys are making it complicated for the sake of complication.

That's not what attracted me to their sound, it was the time they put in to crafting their music. The thought behind it. Caravan seems like an exercise or jam, not a well formulated song.

Upon hearing Pink Floyd's "Momentary Lapse of Reason", Roger Waters commented: "It certainly sounds like Pink Floyd but it doesn't FEEL like Pink Floyd."

I totally get that statement and hope Rush isn't trying to sound like they used to or making long songs just because they used to. Kind of a "Hey, Rush songs used to be complex and long, let's just start there."

I'd want the song to be longer because its meant to be longer and needs to be longer. Make sense ?

#65 - Posted 1/12/12 @6:27PM by Liverpool 78

Oh hello there world...

Ooh 'eck Neil! Look whatcha gone and done!!!

You've only gone and got people all fired up and talking to each other; sharing their views and opinions and engaging in a healthy discussion.

Thank God [or god or dog or whoever or whatever or whenever] that you are only airing your views and opinions, much like everyone else on this blog.

Neil, don't you ever go trying to force your views, opinions, beliefs [or non-beliefs] on anyone - all hell might break loose... mind you, I don't suppose you believe in hell do you?

Liver.

#67 - Posted 1/12/12 @7:07PM by rocinante5m [contact]

hey Marty from Clayton and John E., think you need to hit those history books again.....laughable

besides, look no further than our last President here in the USA...he invaded a country because God told him to.....

#69 - Posted 1/12/12 @7:08PM by Homey M Holmes

#53 -- "you GOT info regarding the new album... more than we should expect, in fact, seeing as it isn't done."

Well, yeah, sure. And a bunch else besides. So I'm just expressing a reaction to that.

Izzat awwright? :D

Good post from #58. Exactly. It's the very language of ahistorical pseudo-sophistication. It's not THAT big of a deal, but it's interesting to remark upon.

#71 - Posted 1/12/12 @7:17PM by QweziRider [contact]

#62 - "...but I am really surprised that they are not smart enough to recognize how such controversial comments will alienate many fans."

I I don't think that's the case, more like your other option: they don't care. And that's cool. There are many things in life, as I get older, I don't care about either.

And that's cool too. Someone might not care about alienating their fan base, and I don't care to be be ridiculed and purchase the goods. It's all cool. no big deal, they move on, I move on too.

#73 - Posted 1/12/12 @7:48PM by marty from clayton [contact]

#67 - I think one of us needs to re-read his history, and it is not I in this case.

#75 - Posted 1/12/12 @7:57PM by musicofthespheres [contact]

sure homey. but you misrepresent the update by saying "this is where his head is at?" That's all. the update was about a lot more than that the festival and charlemagne.

and what 74 said.

#77 - Posted 1/12/12 @8:00PM by Sibelius41 [contact]

I found Snakes and Arrows to be about a 6.5, where Moving Pictures was a 10+. In my view, they have never equaled a Terry Brown album after they fired him. You can point to some near-greats like Counterparts and Vapor Trails, but there haven't been any Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals level albums since 1982. Things have gotten overly complicated, sometimes for reasons several have cited hear re: Caravan - the desire/obsession to try new ways. That's OK. Some like Merlot and Cabernet and some of us would prefer "clear, cold water".

#79 - Posted 1/12/12 @8:32PM by Rob [contact]

has anyone noticed the electronic drums in the studio pictures?

Neil has not used electronics in the studio since.....Roll the bones?


hermy...looks like oak to me.

#81 - Posted 1/12/12 @8:46PM by The_king_will_Neil [contact]

I just have to ask - What is that on the top of the Pagan Winter Festival tree (last picture)? That wouldn't be an Angel, would it? (Does it have a Clockwork? - to keep this on topic.)

#17 - New rumor, 2816 the sequel to 2112...

#83 - Posted 1/12/12 @9:01PM by holeinone53575

#77-I agree with you. I wish they would work with Broon again someday.

#85 - Posted 1/12/12 @9:09PM by holeinone53575

Neil's lyrics have been out of whack lately. I tribute it to his upbringing and the tragedies in recent years. It's not easy to have any faith when everything you hold important has been taken away. Hopefully his new life with Carrie and Olivia will help him to realize that God carried him through his most difficult time and brought light to him at the end of the tunnel.

#87 - Posted 1/12/12 @9:12PM by holeinone53575

Has anyone heard or seen anything from Deadwing 2112?

#89 - Posted 1/12/12 @10:39PM by jupeguyowensound [contact]

Is there honestly anyone out there who has said "Boy, I sure hope the new Rush album is a study on faith and religion!" Or "I wish Neil would write more lyrics about faith and religion".... I doubt it. I grow weary of it, and yearn for lyrics about ANYTHING else.

#91 - Posted 1/12/12 @11:38PM by mikecollins2112 [contact]

COMMENT REMOVED AT POSTER'S REQUEST

#93 - Posted 1/13/12 @12:27AM by John E. [contact]

Hey Rocinante5m, you think George Bush invaded Iraq because God told him to ? And you're telling me to hit the books ?

Yes, laughable.

#95 - Posted 1/13/12 @12:50AM by John E. [contact]

@ # 94: Very funny ! And yes, I'm tired of Tebowing and baseball players making the sign of the cross at the plate, etc..

Can't some things just be private ?

#97 - Posted 1/13/12 @12:53AM by Jodeo [contact]

Since 2001 Rush have release Vapor Trails, Snakes and Arrows, and soon, Clockwork Angels (in addition to Feedback and various live works).

[BTW, I love Feedback! As a fan of Rush, Bowie and Plant, it's rather cool to have all three of them feature an album dedicated to covers (Bowie: Pin-Ups and Plant's Dreamland and Sixty-Six to Timbuktu). Bowie did Shapes of Things, and Plant did For What It's Worth, both tracks appearing on Feedback.]

I was disappointed in their 1996 outing, TFE. I rarely listen to it. VT came along and it took a while to adjust, but eventually it became one of my top 3 favorite Rush albums (along with Hold Your Fire [how's THAT for contrast?] and Permanent Waves). I loved the raw quality of it, the spontaneity that created it. I loved the restraint they imposed (no solos, no keyboards, fewer layers) which drove them to be creative on other ways. And yes, the mix is too dang hot, but despite that, it works.

Snakes and Arrows lead off with Far Cry which, sonically, was a nice meld of some of their 80s and 90s sound with a sense of honesty about where they are now. Lyrically, it was odd (and I suspect Geddy had a hand in that, based on a vague reference Neil once made about a lyric on S&A). Armor and Sword started off well but, toward then end, felt very forced and ultimately failed for me. But I love Spindrift, Larger Bowl, MMB, MalNar, and Bravest Face. The rest of the music is fine.

So far, Caravan is interesting. Different. The first thing I thought of, shame on me, was Led Zep's "In The Light", but that's a crude and silly stretch. The mid-section jam ties the song together well enough, and I rather enjoy the track. BU2B rocks. I like the simplicity of it, the sudden lyrical stop-at-the-edge-of-the-cliff just before the refrain, and the ebb and flow of power chords to rhythm guitar.

So.
What's my point?
I dunno. Let me offer this...

Moving Pictures is done and has been done again (live). But the warmth of analog mixes and the professional hunger in the still uncertain glare of stadium lights are long gone. These men are in the long twilight of their careers. Let that settle in for a minute. Think about it...

David Lee Roth is a baritone at best. Robert Plant is on a relentless quest in the backwoods of Americana - traditional folk music that his co-conspirator, John Paul Jones, has been celebrating for a decade or better prior to changing lanes and bar-hopping with Them Crooked Vultures. Bowie is a quiet family man. Journey's on their third lead singer since Steve Perry retired. Phil Collins can no longer play drums. Lou Gramm, Foreigner's Dirty White Boy, sings Christian music after surviving a benign brain tumor operation.

I could go on. But those legendary contemporaries of Rush are so far removed from their former glories, yet most (maybe all?) are perfectly happy where they are, accepting who they have become in light of their age, still engaged in their passion for music.

"Children growing up, old friends growing older."
And that was written by Neil 25 years ago.
25 years.

Some of you were tots, maybe not even born as of September of 1987. (I was starting my sophomore year in college.)

None of this changes the quality of their music or your degree of satisfaction. But beneath it all, we still have these same three guys, coming up on what could be their "R40" tour in just two more years. They are celebrated for never staying in the same place for very long, and yet their anthology shows an underlying consistency and personality, precision craftsmanship and intellectual ascent. And, well heck, we've just grown to like them. We may not agree with all they say or how they live or what they've done. But we are pleased that they are still true to who they are, despite the years and the changes or even the fact that we *know* they're going bald.

Clockwork Angels is going to be released for two simple reasons: One, these guys love making music, knowing there's a new and different way every time they try (ergo, Neil's comments in his latest blog), and two...

...well heck, because they like us, too.


"Aw, we enjoyed it; We just wanted to share something with you."

#99 - Posted 1/13/12 @1:43AM by musicofthespheres [contact]

97 - pretty sure it's Good News First you're thinking of when you mention "vague reference Neil once made about a lyric on S&A". I think it was in the MD article on S&A where Neil specified the song.

98 - i don't think of it as evil (don't believe in evil either), but as lack of "humanity" (borrowing the word from Neil's update). I think of human behavior on a bell-shaped curve, and unfortunately too many "damaged individuals" (borrowing from Neil) from one of the far ends of the curve wind up in power.

#101 - Posted 1/13/12 @3:07AM by random_sample [contact]

P.S @ #91-
Especially the parts about the change in Neil (and Rush as a band) since Neil moved to California and the whole Freddy Gruber (RIP) thing. I never got that. I'd see Neil sitting with that Freddy Gruber character and the things coming out of that guy's mouth sounded like nonsense to me. I just never got that, at all. Yet Neil seemed obviously thinks differently. Oh well.

#103 - Posted 1/13/12 @9:47AM by ervnos [contact]

Some of these comments are amusing, but I am reminded of J.D. Salinger's "Franny and Zooey", where Franny realizes her boyfriend is a section man. (As in section leader in a college class discussion) Section men say: "Not only am I entitled to my opinion, but the world is entitled to my opinion." It's entertaining, but after a while a bit wearisome. My philosophy is to take the world seriously, but not oneself too seriously. Seems like some here are heading for angina or a seizure. Relax, it's just a blog.

#105 - Posted 1/13/12 @10:09AM by marty from clayton [contact]

I want to have the last word. ;)

I LOVE Caravan & BU2B, musically & lyrically, and I can't wait to hear the whole album in its entirety. I love the musical direction. I don't get those who say Caravan is too______ (chaotic, focusless, whatever). It's parts run so well together. Like all Rush's stuff, the more listens a song requires when you first hear it, the better the song stays with me in the long run.

I would guess Neil is a crotchety old fart, and he's the last of the three I'd want to have dinner with. But I could be totally wrong. I've NEVER MET THE MAN. I might be totally surprised. And for those who say he's too private, we know far more about his interior life than the other two combined.

And if he's too much on the religion/faith thing in his lyrics, whether it's his opinion you don't like or you're just tired of the topic, they're his lyrics. The libertarian in me says he has the choice to write 'em, and you have the choice to buy or not to buy.

PS I love Caravan & BU2B.

#107 - Posted 1/13/12 @10:24AM by rocinante5m [contact]

I get the feeling that some Rush fans might not realize what they have been listening to all these years......Beginning with 2112, Neil has written lyrics about religion and power.....granted, some have not been as straight forward as they have been of late.....It's a very important subject in many ways and I for one love the fact that he chooses to write about it.....almost every decision made by "the powers that be" is based on religion, unfortunately......we fight wars because of it (and other reasons), minds are controlled with it and people die in the name of it.......If you feel this isn't true then it's obviously working on you.....I do not think religion is necessarily a bad thing, it is some what needed.....Other wise men would just be going all over the world telling people what to do, stealing their countries resources, telling them how to live, what to believe in, oh wait.......Most people of faith need to realize that the one they believe in would, and/or is probably be very upset with the way most of them think, live and rule.........

2112, Farewell to Kings, Xanadu, Closer to the Heart, Hemispheres, Freewill, Tom Sawyer, Witch Hunt, Territories, Roll the Bones, The Big Wheel, Totem, Peaceable Kingdom, and Snakes and Arrows :D

and Mr John E, here are a few gifts for you.......you are right about one thing, these aren't in history books yet, but when they make it there, the US will be the one's labeled as Jihadists because of this man and his gang of Christian Crusaders.....

link
link
link

#109 - Posted 1/13/12 @11:17AM by skl183

Wonder if they will play the whole album this time or just the Clockwork Angels suite. They're always really high on new songs at first and then 4-5 years later its "what we're we thinking?" Always

#111 - Posted 1/13/12 @11:37AM by rushdaverush [contact]

When I left work last night, this thread had just over fifty posts. Now it is double that. A lot of activity overnight! Might I be the first to make the corny joke that this topic sure generated a holy war. Wah wah waaaaaaaah.

OK - to the business at hand

#107 - I think your post is dead on. It did make me think of one other song though when I reviewed your list, and that song is Tai Shan. In that case, however, Neil gives a highly romanticized view of that form of spirituality. I have to admit, however, that I don't know if he's describing Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism, or just legend attached to a location where you would raise your hands to heaven to live 100 years.

#62 - I think your post is dead on.

#113 - Posted 1/13/12 @12:26PM by Jimbo [contact]

I'm surprised that some folks are so chagrined by the two new songs, but we're all Rush fans, so we all have our favorites. For me, the Time Machine Tour was a weird one. The first set sagged a few times, but when they launched into BU2B it just exploded everything. That song pushed the energy way up and basically saved the first set (for me). I certainly understand where people are coming from with their criticisms of the newer material, but I've been playing those two new songs quite a bit, more than S&A, and if that's their latest direction, I'm on board.

I suspect that they will be somewhat influenced by this last tour, so some of the new material might seem as though they are reaching back, trying to imitate their older sound. Hopefully that will just be a subtle influence and not some overt attempt at forcing themselves out of their current styles. Doing what comes naturally is usually the best choice, even if it doesn't measure up to stuff created 30 years ago. I just don't want these guys to edge into becoming a nostalgia act, and even the idea of them turning the Clockwork Angels tour into a 2112 tour seems like an inch into that direction. Ultimately, I think they'll keep making new music until they decide to call the whole thing quits, and that's what I love about this band.

#115 - Posted 1/13/12 @2:07PM by John E. [contact]

rocinante5m wrote:

You win John E..... and dinosaurs never existed, just a made up story with funny fossils created by scientists.....and the world is only about 6,000 years old.......and we all came from two incestuous people......It seems that the same people who are closed minded about Neil's views are the same ones who are closed minded about many other things......Is it possible that religion and science are both correct to certain degrees??.....


Where did that come from ? What are you talking about ?
Why are you implying I'm a fundamentalist Christian ? I'm not close minded to Neil's views, I just think he's wrong.

Getting back to our discussion -

I asked you to cite an example of Rush's catalog being filled with religious or anit-faith/anti religious songs and you come back with quoted reply ?

Did you come to the end of your rope on this discussion ?

I'll help you out here:

Yes, dinosaurs existed. Yes, Science and Religion can and do co-exist. No, not all Christians believe the Bible word for word. People who do, are called Fundamentalists.

Many, if not most Christians believe the Bible was written to appeal to multiple generations. In order to do so, for example, the book of Genesis had to be understood by those who weren't privy to a science class back in the day. In the most simple of terms, the book of Genesis delivers a message - God created the universe. Don't get caught up in the details.

If you tried to explain evolution and dinosaurs two-thousand years ago, how many blank stares do you think you'd get back ?

Do you understand now ?

#117 - Posted 1/13/12 @2:33PM by rocinante5m [contact]

"As for Clockwork Angels, we're screwed with the lyrics. After doing some homework, I saw how the "Watchmaker" was a concept used to describe Intelligent Design. -- You got it. The debate of origin, evolution, natural selection and creationism....Here we go. " .......

that's where it came from.......it's interesting how you can have your opinion and give everyone an education, on a blog, but u have a problem with Neil doing it.......


you're right, i'm at the end of the rope....and thanks for reminding me why I haven't chimed in on the blogs for a while......

Peace....

#119 - Posted 1/13/12 @2:38PM by rocinante5m [contact]

and mikecollins2112, spot on and good post.... especially with SirLance being on the fence....he likes it there

#121 - Posted 1/13/12 @3:57PM by marty from clayton [contact]

PS I love Caravan & BU2B

#123 - Posted 1/13/12 @4:44PM by katskahnne [contact]

#110 - How 'bout them Mavericks...? ;-)

I loved the blog. One nice thing about being an old broad, I can read/hear someone's POV on faith/religion, and (as in my case) there's things I agree with and things maybe not so much, but I absolutely respect his viewpoint. I don't feel like he's demanding I believe as he does, and I'm not about to demand that he believe as I do. (My spiritual beliefs can best be defined as "It's complicated" but not something I'm going to go into detail about here.) But I think what I took away from reading it was more Olivia experiencing her first really conscious "Pagan Winter Festival" - maybe because my grandson's just a few months older than she is, and I know what he's saying! And his writing about Freddie Gruber. Beautiful. And that photo...! (BTW the other photos are familiar territory - I used to live in the Valley, and used Topanga Canyon-to-PCH as a favored alternative to the slog through seaward-of-405 L.A. to get to the Malibu area or band practice long ago in Pacific Palisades...)

Can't wait for CA...I'm guessing that, as with S&A, I'll fall in love with some songs immediately, others will grow on me, and the lyrics will, at least, get me *thinking*. Not a lot of other bands I can say that about. One of the things I've always loved about Rush.

#125 - Posted 1/13/12 @6:18PM by The_king_will_Neil [contact]

#123 - What about that Mac&Cheese? (Wasn't that what you asked about last time this happened?)

#120 - This is a case that I must part of "the 1%". While I don't really care for some of the lyrics from S&A (for the topics, and the inconsistency; CA will likely be the same), I definitely count Driven. My favorites playlist usually starts with MMB, MalNar, and few others, and continues backward thru the albums.

#127 - Posted 1/13/12 @7:21PM by rush is best f... the rest [contact]

Leave it to this blog to be taken over by a bunch of right wing religious fanatics. Some of you should be ashamed to call your self's RUSH fans. You can't listen to what the man has to say cause your all too busy running your mouths. How dare you judge the man? Have you walked his life in his shoes? Then you have the nerve to end you post's with how much I love and respect the man after being so judging and disrespectful. You all know who you are. You just don't get it.

#129 - Posted 1/13/12 @7:27PM by rush is best f... the rest [contact]

And if you don't dig the music or want to live in the past then go float your boat somewhere else. And for those of you with some shame, apologies will be accepted.

#131 - Posted 1/13/12 @8:17PM by broughttoyoubytheletterj [contact]

As I read through the posts I can tell some of you arent even RUSH fans, you just cant spew enough self indulgence on twatter & facef**k so you have to spew more on here

#133 - Posted 1/13/12 @9:03PM by JohnnyTRacer [contact]

Re: 122.....Rush IS awesome (all of it, every song, lick, lyric, album cover, kimono and hairdo), there IS A God, and Republicans ROCK.

RUSH ON!

#135 - Posted 1/13/12 @11:02PM by mikecollins2112 [contact]

COMMENT REMOVED AT POSTER'S REQUEST

#137 - Posted 1/13/12 @11:44PM by rocinante5m [contact]

mikecollins, can i have your autograph??? please.....you are sooooo cool.....I mean really, you are......i can't believe someone as cool as you is even on this site....how exciting......stay cool and do your self a favor and leave the basement once in a while, other than hanging out with Rush at their gigs.......and please tell Neil that I approve his messages.......

#139 - Posted 1/14/12 @2:34AM by random_sample [contact]

"posi traction pellet doo doo marks" ?? what the??
haha... ummmmmm.

#141 - Posted 1/14/12 @8:18AM by jupeguyowensound [contact]

boys, boys, boys!!!!

#143 - Posted 1/14/12 @9:47AM by marty from clayton [contact]

#135 mikecollins2112 - I worked the Cleveland show. You see, Geddy had called me earlier that week on my cell phone and asked me to run the spotlight that follows him around stage. So I, of course, say yes, and Geddy had me picked up in his private jet at the Amery airport and flown to Cleveland. After taking a (big) shot of spiced rum in order to overcome my fear of heights, I climbed up into the spotlight seat and spent the concert following Geddy around the stage with the light. From my bird's-eye view, I could see everyone - all the rats in the front row, all the stage-hands, and of course Geddy, Alex, and Neil themselves. And you know something? The one person I don't remember seeing wandering around with an all-access pass was YOU.

Weird.

#145 - Posted 1/14/12 @9:54AM by freewilly [contact]

PS 2 the word "only" suggests I would not be thankful if our existence is due to a higher being or force, but that would not be the case. I'm thankful any way.

#147 - Posted 1/14/12 @11:11AM by LanceTheShred [contact]

#143 Marty-I saw you brother!! You did a hell of a job up there. Weren't you the same guy that fixed the sausage machine as well?? Oh and there ARE what ya call "AIR" access passes available. Ya gotta know someone though..........;)

By the way-Mike's right about something. I was blown away that NO one was singing during LaVil, YYZ and LTTA. The nerve of these people. I even forgot the words cuz I was so enibriated.

Good luck to your Packers on Sunday! I'll be at M&T Bank Stadium freezin my ass off, cheerin on some purple dudes!!

#149 - Posted 1/14/12 @11:45AM by marty from clayton [contact]

#147 - Lance: I didn't want to do the spotlight thing because, you know, my vertigo and all, but I owed Geddy one for him singing at my daughter's wedding.

Also, did I ever tell you how I invented the "hey's" during the 2112 Overture, and suggested to Geddy & Alex that they drop those notes there so we fans could yell instead?

PS
Packer/Raven Super Bowl?
We might not part friends... ;)

#151 - Posted 1/14/12 @1:49PM by random_sample [contact]

#150- haha! I heard they argue about religion and politics even more on the Justin Beiber fansite, so be careful.

#153 - Posted 1/14/12 @2:01PM by double-agent [contact]

Thank Ged that Neil is old enough not to care too much about what some of you think of him (or what fools believe).

Thank you, Neil, for sharing a piece of your heart with us, and for that beautiful picture of little Olivia in front of the tree!

And thanks, most of all, for the three lines of lyric you gave us! So excited for Clockwork Angels!!

#155 - Posted 1/14/12 @3:20PM by musicofthespheres [contact]

freewilly -- nice post 142 (the other 3 weren't necessary, as your message was indeed clear...:). I would add that 104 ignored or forgot the clause that preceded not wanting to do life over again -- "as much as I enjoy my life"...

I did like 104's comment that logic and reason are not everything. That much I don't think Neil would disagree with. Passion and intuition are big players too... And Christmas trees are pretty and make me think of family...

"like" 152-154 too!

#157 - Posted 1/14/12 @6:23PM by cpb [contact]

Did anyone win yet?

#159 - Posted 1/15/12 @4:29PM by marty from clayton [contact]

You know what song I've been into the last few days? Cold Fire. Can't stop listening to it. Go figure....

Way to go Ravens! Now for the Pack...

#161 - Posted 1/15/12 @7:11PM by double-agent [contact]

Cold Fire rawks! 1,000 points to Neil for the use of phosphorescent in a rock song!

#163 - Posted 1/15/12 @9:48PM by Sibelius41 [contact]

@ 155 - I didn't forget the preface of "As much as I enjoy my life..." To me, it sounded alot like, " I know I shouldn't do X, but..." or any number of other lip-service phrases that we all often say. He said that much like any of us would, but the emphasis was on the last half of the sentence.

#165 - Posted 1/16/12 @10:24AM by Jodeo [contact]

#126 (broughttoyoubytheletterj): "I would compare that to a trick that David Copperfield showed the young magician, but you can prove the magician trick..."

BTYBTL,

I'm not one to believe in magic. One minor difference between Copperfield and Christ is that everything that Jesus taught is documented and is available free online to read right now. I suppose I could find a lot of magicians' secrets, too, but Jesus was not "designing to deceive."

Just read it for yourself and make up your own mind. You don't need me or Neil Peart telling you what to believe.

My point being that there are a lot of people claiming to do things in the name of Christ, but what they do is diametrically opposed to what he taught. People who rely on that indirect observation can surely become disenchanted with the concept of the Christian faith. Those who look at the message and read with their own noggin, however, may come away with a better understanding and appreciation of it.

#167 - Posted 1/16/12 @10:38AM by marty from clayton [contact]

It was cold comfort but I rooted for the Ravens in your honor Lance!

#169 - Posted 1/16/12 @4:12PM by limelighter [contact]

giants by 3 over san fran
patriots by 3 over ravens, i mean 3 touchdowns.
cold fire is one of many songs that doesn't get much love. no one talks about that song so much, but it is a great tune. you know how complex women are.....

#171 - Posted 1/16/12 @7:34PM by deslock [contact]

I'm a little late to this thread (and it took a while to read it all).

I salute those of you that choose to be religious for positive reasons such as spirituality and helping the less fortunate. But frankly those of you bothered by Neil Peart's writings about the evangelical, intolerant, fanatical, and violent factions of organized religion range from being overly sensitive to being outright brainwashed.

Some commented that Caravan is a mess compared to songs from Moving Pictures. I agree Caravan sounds somewhat busy and its arrangements aren't especially fluid, but the same can be said for YYZ. I really like the 2010 songs and look forward to the rest of the album.

#173 - Posted 1/17/12 @9:52AM by deslock [contact]

#82, thank you for posting that link. After watching it, I had the opposite reaction: I think Hitchens won (and IMO, it wasn't even close). Craig is a much smoother speaker, but his arguments were weaker than Hitchens'.

If you're interested in these sorts of discussions, here's a transcript of the "After Darwin and Einstein: Is Belief in a Personal God Still Possible?" debate I went to at Fordham 4 years ago (between Brian Davies and John Horgan): link

#175 - Posted 1/18/12 @12:29AM by random_sample [contact]

#174- Not me. Hoping for more cohesive sound on the rest of the material. Caravan - a mess. BU2B -not too bad.

#177 - Posted 1/18/12 @12:08PM by Jodeo [contact]

#168 - Posted 1/16/12 @3:30PM by broughttoyoubytheletterj [contact]

"#165 Sorry to burst yer' bubble but, "everything that Jesus taught" is purely fictional...period."

Ah, DOGMA.
Because "Nah nah nah nah I can't hear you" somehow looks so less mature.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste: Try opening it sometime. Read for yourself. Decide for yourself. Or, you know, just keep telling yourself what you want to believe.

#179 - Posted 1/18/12 @11:08PM by marty from clayton [contact]

#178 - You rock!

#181 - Posted 1/29/12 @2:55PM by marty from clayton [contact]

#180 - Totally agree!